Family?

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Family?

Postby sharp » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:51 pm

I finally got a few minutes to try and figure out clans/families, and am looking over my troops but don't see family listed. I read somewhere that family would possibly give a negative to some orcs and I wanted to see if any of mine were affected. Where do we find family on the orcs? Or is that not shown? Or is it not active yet (i.e. are we still just gauging the affects of clan bonuses at this point in time?)
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Postby TheIceMage » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:06 pm

It is active and not shown. The only obvious family is the one that grants the bonus HPs, which you can tell by looking at the game playbacks to see which ones got the bonus HPs.
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Postby Bogdanovist » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:58 pm

..and the other five families are each -1 to one of the other stats? Is that right, or is it more complicated, or is it intentionally a little ambigous?
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Postby TheIceMage » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:26 am

+2/-2 or +2/-1 or +1/+1 toughness
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Postby sharp » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:23 am

I am a little confused by the usefulness of knowing that families exist if we have no way of knowing which families our orcs belong to (with the hit points ones a notable exception). If the family gives a negative, the only way you would know is by watching an orc's performance in games - which is basically what we used to do anyhow. And if the orc isn't peforming, yank him and try another one in that position. Without knowing what negatives are in place with certain families, the replacement orc we plug into the lineup at that position is essentially a blind guess based on visible stats. (same thing we have always done). I guess I was hoping for a way to figure out what negatives each family has and craft a team with those in mind. Weighing out the pros and cons, etc. I am not saying you should just make up a chart showing the positives and negatives of all the families because that would be too easy and not take any cognitive observance on the part of the overlords. However, if, as an overlord, you knew from your own observance of empirical data that orcs from certain families tended to exhibit poor performance in damage dealing, you would not want to use another orc from that family as say - one of you starting defense orcs.
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Postby Bogdanovist » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Ack! -2 hidden neagtive! I didn't realise it could be that bad, I thought it was just -1. IMO that's too much. I mean, how does an overlord know a particular orc has the stats they do anyway? Who has supplied the info that an overlord gets to look at when scouring the homelands, or checking their team in the barracks, and how does this info get skewed by their family? i.e. your talent scout observered this orc take a bunch of great catches in the pre-seasons trials, his hands are safe as houses so he writes on his clipboard "get 5". However, unknown to the talent scout, this guys parents are real butterfingers, and somehow, despite showing time and again during training that he is a great catch, he seems to not be able to make the simplest of completitions during a game (get 5 to get 3 is a huge drop).

It dosn't 'feel' right to me :(

I thought from previous posts that it was -1 penalty at most, which was bearable but -2 is just too much of a lottery IMO.
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Postby Brakgwar » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:46 pm

Im in the Same Boat as Bog and Sharp ..
:? :? :?

As i thought Clans gave you a + in a Specific Skill (Slam would be a Bonous of an unknown to ... well Slam!) and then your Orc Also gets an Unknown Minus in Some Skill. 8)

Then i started Seeing Posts on families inside each Clan :o Which after reading these made it ........( the way i was Compiling Info )..... Clans are not really any Bonous or Minus to and Orc its really what Family he is in. The Clan is Just a Name and has No real bearing on an Orcs Skills :( :? :( :?

Then we get this Newest Thread and Maybe im reading all the Info thats been posted on the Forums Wrong but its looking to me like .....

Loose Clan doesnt really Mean you get any Bonous to Loose since you Could Get a +2 to say Get and a -2 to say Loose based on what Family he is in??? Makes Clans a Crap shoot .... :shock: :? :shock:

Is this the Way it is ???????????????


Maybe if you could Sum up Clans and Familes in a Single post it might Help me better understand what exactly is Going to happen. :D
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Postby Daemian » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:54 pm

/agreed with above.

That might explain why some of my teams are losing as badly as they are.

Sidenote: is it possible (with current code) for a Clan of (let's say) +Lose to have the -1 or -2 in Lose (obviously with the +1 or +2 in something else)?

Just something that crossed my mind.

Alternately, if the "Families" were more focused I think it would work.

Examples:
Lose Clans get bonuses in Lose/Get or Eek.
Pound Clans get bonuses in Pound/Sneak or Tough.
Slam Clans get bonuses in Slam/Eek or Tough.
etc.

Not sure if this fits the Vision(tm), but I think it would make a bit more sense for us Overlords.
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Postby Bogdanovist » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:16 pm

I think the bonus's are what would be expected, i.e. Slam clan gets either +1 or +2 to slam, but it's the negatives that are unknown. I had thought the family made a negative of -1 to one of the other stats (or a bonus to tgh), but to find it is -2 too much for my liking.
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Postby TheIceMage » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:31 pm

:lol: (Laughing to self)

Okay, here's the deal:

There are 37 families.

Six-Leaf clan is all one big happy family. No bonus, no penalty, most populous. Or if you're against the inbreeding risk, let's say there's lots of families, but they're all the same stats-wise.

The other clans each have 6 families. As an example, the Three Rivers clan has the following 6 families:
+2 Lose/-1 Get
+2 Lose/-1 Eek
+2 Lose/-1 Slam
+2 Lose/-1 Pound
+2 Lose/-1 Sneak
+1 Lose/+1 Toughness

The other five clans follow this pattern.

I was originally considering a -2 to counter the +2, but decided against it. It is amusing to read of the hatred to that idea BEFORE it's put into place. :D
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Postby Bogdanovist » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:38 pm

I think this is what lead to the confusion:

TheIceMage wrote:+2/-2 or +2/-1 or +1/+1 toughness


The last post you just made was the way I thought it worked before I read the above. All good now, -1 is okay considering the +2 known bonus (or +1 with extra tgh!). It means as long as you have an appropriate clan for the right position you won't be worse off, i.e. if your centre is Get clan but is also the worst case scenario being in the -1 lose family at least your combined get+lose is better off due to their clan effects. On the other hand if your centre is from the sneak clan but happened to have high get and lose so you picked them as a centre they may be jipping you with a penalty for one or the other, so you need to consider that when buying and shuffling your players.

On the face of it the no bonus clan loses out overall, but the advantage is you know exactly what stats they have, no nasty surprises.

I like it (once again) :D
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Postby TheIceMage » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:58 am

Bogdanovist wrote:I think this is what lead to the confusion:

TheIceMage wrote:+2/-2 or +2/-1 or +1/+1 toughness


Let's call that "premeditated confusion." :)
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Postby Brakgwar » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:23 am

Ok Brak's got a Grasp on it now :wink:
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Postby TheIceMage » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:34 am

Should shaman be able to identify families for members of their own clan? I'm guessing it would be a skill (which requires some material component, like a DNA test-kit but not quite so scientific). That adds a gold cost and a cost to train the shaman, along with the restriction of it only working on the members of the shaman's clan... Seems fair and balanced, just like Fox News!
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Postby Brakgwar » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:42 pm

I like it..... it Adds more to a Team Building Long term 8)
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